I think we have found the yurt we want

[Clean Air Yurts]

I only wanted to ask

Shelter Designs

their position on the issue of vinyl in yurt cover fabrics, so this will be my last post in this thread, but I will open another thread to discuss this issue.

Again,

Shelter Designs

is doing a good job of making yurt frames and covers and their quality seems to be high. I only question the choice of cover fabric and if they have searched for alternatives to vinyls and

Durolast

.

One of the issues that I have with PVC and Vinyls are the high levels of Phalates and other plasticizers found in the soft vinyl used to coat fabrics. One common phalate used in vinyl fabrics is BPA or Bisphenol-A. This chemical was deemed to be harmful enough to small children and adults that it was removed for nearly all children's products as well as the lining of cans as was widely reported over the past several years. BPA has been found in the blood of nearly humans ever tested. Many companies are touting their newly-redesigned products as BPA-free, so why would yurt companies not want to be BPA-free as well?

The other issue with vinyls is the high levels of fire-retardants particularly brominated fire retardants found in vinyl fabrics. These are another class of chemicals that is coming under enhanced scrutiny in recent months. These chemicals are banned in Europe already.
EFSA Topic: Brominated Flame Retardants

Most chemicals have had no research into their possible health effects because big companies want to sell more products, not protect the health of the public. That is the fault of the close ties between big business and the government.
This is from the EPA website at HPV Chemical Hazard Data Availability Study | OPPT | US EPA

I personally don't want to take the chance that my kids will grow up with thyroid issues or genetic mutations, or cancer and so I stay away from vinyl.

"Of the 3,000 chemicals that the US imports or produces at more than 1 million lbs/yr, a new EPA analysis finds that 43% of these high production volume chemicals have no testing data on basic toxicity and only seven percent have a full set of basic test data. This lack of test data compromises the public's right to know about the chemicals that are found in their environment, their homes, their workplace, and the products that they buy. Industry must do more to ensure that basic information is available on every high-production chemical they manufacture.

Background:

There are six basic tests which have been internationally agreed to for screening high production volume (HPV) chemicals for toxicity. The tests agreed to under the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development's Screening Information Data Set (OECD/SIDS) program are: acute toxicity; chronic toxicity; developmental/reproductive toxicity; mutagenicity; ecotoxicity and environmental fate.

EPA found that approximately 55% of TRI chemicals have had full SIDS testing, while only 7% of other chemicals have full test data. EPA also looked at a set of 491 chemicals used by children and families in consumer products. Only 25% of these chemicals have full screening data. EPA cannot begin to judge the hazards and risks of such consumer chemicals without basic information, and in fact substantially more detailed and exhaustive testing is needed to assess these high exposure chemicals.

It is clear that companies need to do more to address this problem: of the 830 companies making HPV chemicals in the US, 148 companies have NO SIDS data available on their chemicals; an additional 459 companies sell products for which, on average, half or less of SIDS tests are available. Only 21 companies (or 3% of the 830 companies) have all SIDS tests available for their chemicals. The basic set of test data costs about $200,000 per chemical."

[willovic]

I have no doubt that what you are saying is true. Awareness is good. It is the forerunner of change but change doesn't happen quickly. I think all plastics are harmful to the planet, the people who have to work in the production of it and the people who use it. We are trying to limit the amount of it we have in our lives. I l also know that there is another very real threat to our health and that is feeling fearful all the time about everything. So much of the time I only hear about what is bad what is wrong. I want to hear about what is a better way and how we can change what isn't working well . what has someone discovered that will make it better.

[Jafo]

I am not trying to be argumentative or provocative, but how much testing has been done on Penofin Verde non-toxic oil finishes or "non-toxic" polyester?

Just because something has not been tested to someone else's specifications does not automatically mean it is hazardous.

Don't get me wrong, I want more natural materials used when possible, but I am just not going to have an instantaneous negative reaction about an unknown.

I have also found that just because something is natural, does not always mean it is safe. I grew up in Central NY where there were many people who suffered from Farmer's lung, which was just from inhaling too much hay dust, but I am certainly not afraid of bales of hay.

[willovic]

my husband is a cabinet maker. Too many years of sawdust( a natural substance) and he can't be in the shop as long as he used to, even with a mask and a filtration system. I am an artist working with chalk pastels. The chalk dust can be very toxic to breathe and it its all natural substances so I know what you mean.

[Yurting]

Fear vs respect is different. Farmers lung is from breathing in too many mold, fungi, and grass allergens. It can kill you. Hay can spontaneously combust, as well.

Is hay dangerous? Not if you treat/store/use it properly. But if you don't . . . .

[Jafo]

Originally Posted by Yurting

Is hay dangerous? Not if you treat/store/use it properly. But if you don't . . . .

Totally agreed!

[Tree Bones]

Thought I might as well put in my two cents worth on the vinyl aspect of this thread.

Problems associated with toxicity in humans will require one of the following;ingestion, inhalation, absorption or injection of a toxin into the body. One of these must take place before there is a problem with human health risks.

So, if you work at a factory or manufacturer where you are exposed to heavy concentrations of toxins and they enter your body through one of the above methods you are at risk.

If you are exposed to toxic materials without toxins entering your body common sense would indicate no risk of negative health effects.

Consider closely the information above when determining the risk of building materials and how they may affect you or your family.

• Are you eating/ingesting it?
• Are you absorbing it through your skin?
• Are you breathing it (off gassing)?
• Are you injecting it into your body?

Chances are none of the above will be true. However if you have a small child who will be chewing on most everything then they will need proper supervision/protection no mater what type of home you live in.

GMO's in our daily diet are a far greater health and environmental risk than vinyl in our homes. Learn more about GMO's here. BPA is still found in many food and beverage products and unless you are fanatical about looking and avoiding them then chances are you consume this and it is far more of a health risk than vinyl in a yurt.

As for the overall environmental impacts we should avoid continued production of bad stuff. Going down this same line if we can reuse, recycle and make the most out of our natural and existing man made resources this is a step in the right direction.

I myself use recycled vinyl and feel good about it. I do not believe it is a health risk because under normal use it does not enter the human body very easily. I do not promote the continued manufacture of more bad stuff and consider what I do both politically and environmentally correct.

My goal as a yurt manufacture is to provide an affordable cost effective environmentally friendly alternative to traditional housing.

Change will be slow and we must take steps to move closer to doing the right thing. This might seem like a small step but non the less it is a move in the right direction.

Fear should not be part of the process of using good judgment.

Using recycled vinyl is one solution to the problem. Keep in mind if you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.

[baldy]

A very interesting and worthwhile subject to look into. I myself don't want my kids to be subject to extremely harmful chemicals. However as a whole, the entire world is surrounded by harmful products that we come into contact with everyday, such as this keyborad I am typing on. I am sure that the heat generated by this laptop will help release other known or unkown chemicals that could be harmful to my health. I am sure that the products used by respectful companies have been looked into and verified to be safe for the most part. However a complete organic or non-chemical application does hold it's merit. Thanks for posting some interesting information.

[Tucker]

We are debating between going with a 30ft pacific yurt or opting for more space with a
40ft big sky by shelter designs. Like of the idea of a more established company with a
great reputation, but having more footage for our permanent living space would be a huge asset. Would like feedback from anyone familiar with or owners of shelter design yurts. I understand they also have a new arctic

insulation

package-any thoughts on this
system?
We are putting up the yurt in the inland NW.
Thanks for any help with our decision making process.

[willovic]

We just picked up our yurt from shelter design.( we live on vancouver island Canada, 10 hour drive each way) We have been extremely happy with them. It was a pleasant experience all the way through. Friendly, honest, professional, willing to work with you. Great customer service. We felt we were part of the team. We loved the direct experience with the ones who actually make it. They have pride in what they are doing and it shows. I would highly recommend them. We haven't got our platform built yet, but when it is up I will post pictures.